I am sorry.

[Corey]

Hey,

Let me start by introducing myself as this is my first ever post on this wonderful forum. My name is Corey and I live in the wonderful country Australia. I work for a telecom here in Australia so I am familiar (somewhat) with electronics, soldering and basic electrical principles. I also moderate a few technical based forums and run a few websites for fun! But that's enough about me...

The reason I titled the post 'I am sorry' is because I know how frustrating it can be to have people asking the same question that has been answered 1000's of times because they lack the initiave to search the forums before posting their questions. I how ever did search the forums for information to help me achieve my goals but I in the end I was left more confused the when I started. There is so much information and people looking to achieve different outcomes although I imagine what I wish to achieve is a fairly common request. So lets begin and sorry once again..

My objective:
I am interested in using a 'drone' to survey small areas, my budget is $1200. I would like live FPV of the video displayed on a PC and the camera being able to rotate, mainly up and down. (I think the term might be Gimbal, Possibly...? )

The range from the receiver will not be to large but I am not sure what a 'reasonable' distance is.

Flight time is as long as possible obviously but as far as I can tell I can expect 10-15 minutes.

I am not sure of the pro and cons of Quad Vs Hex in relation to copters, I assume Hex is better?

I am not sure whether to buy a Ready to Fly drone or purchase the supplies individualy, I am sure if I build it myself the knowledge will help me in the future and will allow me to upgrade/repair if needed.

I welcome any comments or questions just no flame please :)

Resources I have investigated.

http://code.google.com/p/arducopter/

This is a RTF drone I have seen but does not incorporate a camera. http://www.dji-innovations.com/products/phantom/overview/

I have also searched http://www.hobbyking.com but I just ended up confused.

And then there is a local retailed in Australia http://www.baskindustries.com/aerospace/ - Once again no camera though.

http://diydrones.com/forum/topics/planned-quadrocopter-uav - A very old post that appears to show how to build a cheap drone.

[Chris Anderson]

No worries, those are all good questions. They basically boil down to three questions:

1) How big a camera do you need to carry? If a GoPro or point-and-shoot is fine, a quad is ideal. If you need a DLSR, you'll do better with a hexa, which can carry more weight. 

2) Do you need a UAV or just a RC copter? If you plan to fly everything manually, a RC copter is fine. But if you want it to do autonomous GPS-guided missions, you'll need a full UAV like ArduCopter. 

3) How technical are you? If you're not pretty experienced with both RC and electronics, you'll be better with an RTF copter. Don't worry, you'll get plenty of challenge and learning ;-)  Here's a good place to get RTF ArduCopters.

[Corey]

Let me start by saying thanks for your quick response and helpful insight.

1: I do not own a GoPro but the I could use on for my personal life (bike riding and such) so I would be killing two birds with one stone, the problem is I figure if I got a smaller camera my overall weight would be less, therefor the drone would be more efficient. If there would be basically no difference a GoPro would be fine. But I would prefer Effie over convince.

2: Once again my personal life comes into play, I enjoy the thought learning and killing some time playing with a UAV compared to a RC copter. I want to future proof the drone so although I don't essentially need GPS I enjoy having the option. Who can guess what the future might bring.

3: 7/10 for technical ability. I have tinkered with PC's chipped Wii's and Play Stations repaired phones and as mentioned had a reasonable career on the network side of Telecommunications.

How easy would it be to attach a camera to a ArduCopter and have the feed displayed on a laptop in the field. The only reason I need OSD is so I can be assured I am getting the footage I need. It also enables me to gather the footage easier. I notice on the site you linked to there is a option for a OSD and a camera mount (without camera I assume) both appear to be on back order, any ETA on that?.. Once I add all the options I need it does exceed my budget however. Are there any alternatives and thanks again for your help.

[Miles Smith]

Just to comment on the GoPro aspect.

I've used a GoPro on many of my projects, and I chose it specifically because of it's high-quality image AND it's small form factor. It's extremely light, and is designed exactly for situations like this. They have plenty of mounts that make it easy to attach to a drone, and you can even get them to work with OSD's for FPV flying.

Unless you have need for some extraordinary quality that only a DSLR can get you, then a GoPro will do the trick for a ton less money needing to be put into the actual drone.

Here's a quad frame that works exceptionally well with GoPro's

 http://www.getfpv.com/multi-rotor-frames/qav500-fpv-quad.html

[Mikey]

The range from the receiver will not be to large but I am not sure what a 'reasonable' distance is.

Typical off-the-shelf RC radio setup will give you a range of about 3km.  Range can be greatly increased by utilizing directional antennas,  however there are many other options here.

Flight time is as long as possible obviously but as far as I can tell I can expect 10-15 minutes.

This will depend on many factors.   In short it depends largely on how optimized your multicopter is for the given all-up weight (AUW) including payload.  For maximum efficiency (flight time),  you will need to ensure your choice of motor runs at 60-70% of their max power in the hover, with full payload.   In addition, as a basic guide, you will find that a quadcopter  with good quality, low KV motors (350-400kv) combined with large props (14-15inch), will give you the longest flight time.  Low KV motors spin slower, produce more torque and therefore can swing a larger prop.   A large slow spinning prop is more efficient at moving the same volume of air than a smaller faster spinning prop,  however  smaller props can change their speed faster and therefore will be generally more stable, especially in wind.   However for your application this won't be a problem, as you are taking stills, not video.

I am not sure of the pro and cons of Quad Vs Hex in relation to copters, I assume Hex is better?

A hex providers single engine out redundancy, provided that you have sufficient power to weight ratio head room.  You will need about a 3:1 power weight ratio,  however a hex is generally less efficient than a quad and further, you may need larger - heavier - motors that can provide at least a 3:1 power:weight ratio head room, which will further sacrifice your efficiency (as explained above).   So you will have to find an even medium that suits your application best.

I am not sure whether to buy a Ready to Fly drone or purchase the supplies individualy, I am sure if I build it myself the knowledge will help me in the future and will allow me to upgrade/repair if needed.

Good question.   Forums are a good source of information,  however personally, if I was to do it again  I would find someone competent that is in your area, and can provide for you professional consultation on machine setup, configuration, flight training, troubleshooting  and maintenance.   This will be your fastest path to getting you business up and running, and in the longer term, the most cost effective way of going about entering the world of multicopters.

I welcome and comments or questions just no flame please :)

[Corey]

Thanks for the very indepth information, but not so technical that I couldn't understand it.

1: 3km would be perfect, as long as I still had OSD.

2: Exactly the information I was looking for! Besides you say "However for your application this won't be a problem, as you are taking stills, not video." I am sorry for the confusion but I plan to take video not photos/stills.

3: So what you are saying is that if I was using a quad 3/4 motors need to be able to bring the drone to the ground in the event one fails? (makes sense) and that a Quad Copter would be fine for filming video provided I take into account the power to weight ratio.

4: I agree the forums are very helpful but I have searched and searched and just end up confused, although now this post has shed some light on where to start. On a small side note do you know of a post where someone has achieved my goal within my budget?

[Mikey]

Hi Corey,

re: 2.  Irrespective.   What I was referring to was smaller props are better suited for people optimizing their multi-copters for cinematic stable video.   Whilst you are shooting video, you won't be requiring this level of video stability for surveying.

3.  A quadcopter has no redundancy.  If you loose a single motor/prop the aircraft will crash.   However a quadcopter is more efficient than a hex or octocopter, i.e if max flight time is top priority, you will need to go with a quad, (but you will have no engine-out redundancy).  Alternatively if you require redundancy, you will have to sacrifice some flight time.  How much, well that all depends.

If you want to get your feet wet and have time up and some cash up your sleeve I would go with the system/s Chris mentioned.   However, as mentioned previous, I would consult with someone local who can help you navigate through it all.

I am happy to discuss with you over the phone (free advice), as I am in Australia (Brisbane).  Just PM me for details.

[Darrell Burkey]

You'll find everything you need here and some very helpful people. What part of Australia are you in? Here in Canberra their is a lot of activity re UAVs. I'm a relative newbie myself but I'm not too far off your stated goals. I posted a video just yesterday that you might find of interest. Good luck with your adventure. It's really interesting and fun to boot.

 

 

[Corey]

Hey Darrell.

Thanks for your input. Your drone seems to work really well! I appreciate that you listed the parts in your drone in the video. You mention 3DR Quad Rev C. Did you purchase it RTF, in a kit or just the frame?

As for me I live in Tas (Let the jokes begin :P) so I doubt we have a large drone scene, unfortunately..

Thanks again!

[Stephen R Mann]

I can attest to the safety of a hex over a quad.  I bought a 3DRobotics hexacopter for its' lifting capacity.  About a week ago during a loiter at about 100ft, I had a prop failure.  I knew something was wrong because it started to yaw in the opposite direction that I was holding the yaw stick.  And it was getting wobbly.  I lowered the throttle to bring it down and a few seconds later there was a sudden sharp wobble, for lack of a better description.  Then I saw something floating down from the vehicle.  As the piece got closer, it was obviously a piece of the prop.  The hex was mostly controllable, but I cut the throttle too high and lawn-darted the last few feet.  I only lost one motor, two props and a motor arm.  Had it been a quad, I would have hoped that the electronics survived because little else would be intact.

[R_Lefebvre]

And then there's Octocopters, in which case you might not have even noticed a prop was missing until after you landed. ;)

[Stephen R Mann]

I knew I was in trouble when the larger piece of the prop landed right in front of me.

Admittedly, I had been using the cheap plastic props because I broke so many while learning to fly.  Phil (my mentor) thinks that the prop may have been weakened in a prior prop strike.  Quite possible.  I since repaired the hex and installed the more expensive fiber props.  One of the first things I noticed was that the more expensive props were perfectly balanced without any tweaking on my balance jig.  The next thing I noticed was that the new props (12x3.8) were quieter in flight than the 12x4.5 plastic props.  I didn't expect that - I expected that the flatter pitch props would have required higher RPM to produce the same lift.

[Marc Fournier]

What brand of props are the new ones?